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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2017

    Default Flexible arrangements & leave

    Hello there,

    Can someone please help me what I should do with my situation?

    I am still on my probation period. One day my partner got sick and I have asked for a couple of hours late permission. I have emailed my manager saying I will be in around 11 AM and clearly said I do not want to take any leave for that day. And I actually reached office at 10.45AM itself.

    Later that day I saw that my manager marked a leave for me from 8.30AM - 12 PM. (8.30 is starting time shows on our system but I normally start at 9 AM and most of the employees start at the same time). Anyways I have asked my manager why is that (through email) but he told me in person because I said I will be in at 12. I said, "No, I was in at 10.45". He then changed my leave from 08.30 - 11AM.

    Does that normal procedure? I am really disappointed with my manager for the fact that he didn't give me the late permission instead just marked my absence as leave? I have been with many flexible employers before and I just had to work the required hours for the whole week and I could work in flexible hours. This really hurts me and I think I won't have a good connection with my manager anymore.

    So if this is rude and not a proper way to deal with my lateness, what should I do? Should I talk with my HR people? or is this normal for an employee who is still on probation. Please advise.

    Thanks and regards, Sam

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2013


    Hi there Sam

    Firstly, I would start by asking what the company policy is for flexible work arrangements. However, I would not say based on your question that you were seeking a flexible arrangement.

    In my opinion, you were asking for personal leave to assist with an immediate family member, which is a valid reason for access to personal leave.

    However, I would be a pains to say that you most likely have contractual employment arrangement that sets a start and finish time, and that it is under the contract for you to attend during that period of time, with any time less than the contracted period requiring mutual agreement before the time can be taken.

    Therefor, an employer is NOT obliged to offer a variation to the contract of employment, and the standard hours of work unless both parties are mutually agreeable for you to say start later and finish later to make up the time, or to access flexible working hours (TOIL or FLEX as it is known) if there are no pre-arranged approvals in place.

    Whether you are on probation or not, does not limit your access to any amount of accrued leave you may have at the point of the leave, but it is leave and it is either elected by YOU as leave with pay or leave without pay, but it is leave if you have not been in attendance during your core hours of work.

    So, first check what the companies flexible policy is and how it is accessed. Then you would need to comply with the access arrangement or application and approval process is, but most companies would require a few weeks to a month notice of any such change not a days or twos notice. Other than the leave debit being more than what was actually taken, the process appears inline with most, with the exception of the open discussion and agreement BEFORE the leave was taken (were applicable).

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2012


    1) Confirm with your employer just what your start time each day is. If in fact it is 9am, then have the leave adjusted. Why does the system have 8:30 when it is 9am in reality - if that misinformation is going to the payroll preparer, that will cause lots of issues in relation to calculation of overtime etc.
    2) As stated by IndustrialResources, the time you had off is Personal Carer's Leave which begins to accrue from day one of employment (rate of accrual for full time employees is 0.83/day per month) to which you are entitled. So depending on number of months you have been employed, you may well not have sufficient leave to be paid, in which case it becomes PC/L without pay.
    3) Seems quite odd that a manager is inputting leave for an employee?? These days most companies have inhouse payroll systems where employees input leave requests which go to a Manager for approval. Or, if still in the dark ages, there would be paper leave forms for employees to fill out and have approved.
    4) Next time you have need for sudden leave taking, actually speak to your manager. Emails/text messages are a dirge for managers trying to run a business, communication is lost and in this case, there was obviously a miscommunication.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2017


    Hello IndustrialResources and @Tiger,

    Thank you so much for your messages.

    I forgot to mention both my wife and kid were sick on same day. With FairWork law, I can request a flexible arrangement to look after a kid, right? Also, on that same day I have worked for 7.5 hours after starting from 10.45 and my timesheet got approved. So with the leave, I have worked overtime on the same day.

    Thanks, Sam

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2007


    Hi Sam,

    I don't think that you understand that an approved flexible working arrangement is very different to personal/carer's leave.

    Personal/carer's leave is definitely an appropriate leave type for unforeseen absences where you are unable to attend work because you are providing care to ill family members.

    However, a phone call or email advising that you will be in late does not meet the requirements for a flexible working arrangement under Section 65 of the Fair Work Act. A worker's written proposal must set out all the relevant details, and the employer has up to 21 days to approve or reject the proposal. Additionally, only employees with more than 12 months service are eligible for this formal arrangement under the Act. As an employee on probation, it's likely that you don't have the required period of service.

    Some employers are willing to allow some flexibility on start/finish times even without a formal arrangement under Section 65. Many are not. It doesn't surprise me at all that your employer thought that personal/carer's leave was appropriate to cover your absence, rather than allowing a change to your hours of duty which was not agreed in advance.

    If you worked 7.5 hours and had 2 hours (or more) of leave on the same day, you should discuss this with your manager. Whether or not you are paid for overtime might depend upon a few things, including whether your employer required or requested you to work the additional hours, or if you just decided to do it on your own decision. It's worth a discussion.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2017


    Hi Greg,

    Thank you so much for your reply. Yea I now understand both.

    Anyways I am resigning from my current place. There were few more other issues with my manager and I have reported it to the HR team. So obviously he isn't happy about it. So if I stay I won't enjoy at all working under a manager like him who never trust any of his employees. So I thought it's better to move.

    Thank you all for your responses guys. Much appreciated.

    Thanks, Sam

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