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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    6

    Default Tippy toeing around difficult employees!

    Hi guys,

    I need some advice re a situation where my wife works. She is in a relatively senior position and while not at C level is often a participant at C level meetings.

    In recent times she had become aware of situations where other managers are at her level are tippy toeing around "difficult" employees when in her view they should be plain speaking and tell said employees that they are not doing their job and to shut up and get on with it.

    Frankly, after hearing her description of what has been going on, I can see her point. If I was there I would be telling the employee that they are refusing to comply with a reasonable and legal direction from their employer, because that is exactly what is going on.

    However some of these employees are quite bolshy and will make a formal complaint to HR given the slightest excuse. It happened again today when a manager told an employee he was being uncooperative.

    On at least one occasion my wife's frustration has got the better of her and after pointing out to the "difficult" employee that she is not their manager she has proceeded to "give them a serve", basically reminding them of their responsibilities under their employment contract.

    My wife is of the opinion that because she is not an employee's manager she can speak her mind without the employee making some sort of claim against the organisation. Her theory being that because she has no managerial responsibility for the employee she is therefore speaking peer to peer.

    Is she correct in this belief?

    Before anyone asks what HR are doing, I'm sorry to say they seem to be quite distant and simply instruct line managers to "deal with" situations on their own without actually telling them what they can and can't say!

    Regards,
    David

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Hi David,

    This is not a complete response, just a couple of thoughts.

    It appears that your wife brought up what she felt was a performance issue with an employee who is junior to her, but not subordinate. Is this correct? If so, what does your wife hope to achieve by this? If it's modified behaviour on the part of the employee who is not pulling his or her weight, I think this is wishful thinking on your wife's part.

    I would advise against raising any performance issues with an employee who is not subordinate, as this is likely to be unwelcome and may be construed as bullying or harassment. If a complaint is lodged by the aggrieved employee and there were no witnesses to conversation(s) and related events that the aggrieved employee may construe as bullying, an investigation to determine if the complaint can be substantiated can go either way.

    To this end, while it seems like telling the employee to pull their socks up is the right thing to do, it is risky and probably won't achieve anything productive.

    Kam Radzikowski

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kam Radzikowski View Post
    It appears that your wife brought up what she felt was a performance issue with an employee who is junior to her, but not subordinate. Is this correct?
    Hi Kam, yes this is correct.

    If so, what does your wife hope to achieve by this? If it's modified behaviour on the part of the employee who is not pulling his or her weight, I think this is wishful thinking on your wife's part.
    From what I understand, it did have the desired effect, to some extent at least.

    It seems that one of the problems in her workplace is that managers have little or no training at all in performance management issues, so they don't tend to manage performance very effectively. Consequently, "plain speaking" as my wife calls it, is quite rare.

    I would advise against raising any performance issues with an employee who is not subordinate, as this is likely to be unwelcome and may be construed as bullying or harassment.
    This was my concern. But has it really come to the stage where telling a colleague to pull their socks up and actually do their job is bullying or harassment?

    If a complaint is lodged by the aggrieved employee and there were no witnesses to conversation(s) and related events that the aggrieved employee may construe as bullying, an investigation to determine if the complaint can be substantiated can go either way.
    In this particular case it happened in a meeting and the employee's actual manager was present, he just wasn't saying what needed to be said

    Thanks for your advice Kam, I will pass it on.

  4. #4

    Default

    First off david if your wife is a employee also and not in a position of managerial responsibility of the employees than she should certainly not be having a go at them. I can understand her frustration but should HR decide to do their job properly and drive the management of the employees performance than her intervention in that manner may do more harm than good.

    If she wants to do something about it she needs to approach managers and put in a formal complaint. HR will then have no option but to get involved. She must be prepared to work in a divisive workplace then though because the employees will more than likely become aware it is her that has made the complaint and they may then target her.

    From my perspective it is disappointing to have HR all but ignore the issues, because in situations like this if it is left to continue then it impacts on all employees and will make it a lot harder to fix in the future.

    My advice as a starting point is if a outside manager who has no direct contact or responsibility for the employees can be approached to do something than that may assist....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Hi David,

    I would not expect that your wife's intervention during a meeting would be construed as harassment or bullying, but if it had been in the absence of witnesses, or if it happens more than once, than that could be a different story.

    My advice would be for your wife to approach the employee's manager with her concerns. Sometimes this isn't a viable option, in which case, as QLD IR Consultant said, a complaint to HR may be appropriate, though if this is a formal complaint, it can make for an unpleasant process and a difficult work environment; if it isn't, it may be of little use.

    Kam Radzikowski

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kam Radzikowski View Post
    My advice would be for your wife to approach the employee's manager with her concerns.
    The employees manager was in the meeting! In my wife's opinion it was the employees manager who was not saying what needed to be said, so she said it

    There is something else I should perhaps have mentioned. This employee's failure to do their job impacts on my wife and her team. it creates more work for them, so it's not like she is just a casual observer who is "interfering".

    The problem as I see it is that in the absence of appropriate training some managers "tippy toe" around difficult employees for fear of litigation, hence the title of the thread.

    At what point does suggesting someone to get on with the job they are paid to do, become harrassment or bullying?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    12

    Default

    As long as your wife was professional and fair, I think she did a good thing. I think if these issues are approached with empathy and openness, and in a kind manner, the said employee should hopefully see things differently. Maybe your wife could explain the impact on her team and work with the employee to improve on their performance - mentorship. I also think your wife should have a private meeting with the Manager of the employee as they are accountable for delivering results, through their team.

    No use tip toeing around. But being nasty is not the answer either. Maybe there are things happening in the employee life nobody is aware of or they are lacking in skills and could do with some training. Lots of different options to consider, but we do need to communicate.....its just how we do so that matters.

    Good luck.

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