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  1. #1

    Question Personal/Annual Leave - arrive work late and get 2 hrs Personal Leave

    We have a guy on Wages i.e. is paid an hourly rate.
    He rang Wed night, and said he needs to get a new battery for his car.
    Turns up at work on Thurs 2 hrs after normal start time. This is ok as it was expected/
    However, he has submitted his timesheet and has put the 2 hrs down as Personal/Annual Leave and expects to be paid for them!
    I think that this is ridiculous, however my partner disagrees.
    Your thoughts?

  2. #2

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    First off they are 2 different types of leave. Personal (sick) and annual leave are completely different. First off annual leave (unless rolled into the hourly rate) attracts a loading. If anything mark it as sick leave, take it off his balance and move forward.

  3. #3

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    I agree the types of leave are diff.
    It cannot be annual leave - in my opinion- as this type of leave has a formal request process and applies to whole days not part thereof.
    However, paying 41 hours for 39 hours work just seems wrong and unjust.
    In addition, sets a dangerous precedent...again in my opinion.
    I guess that is why I do not want to concede as I do not want tha to become common or accepted practice,
    I was interested however, to hear if others had encountered a similar scenario and what they did.
    Oh...annual leave does not attract loading in this instance either (factored out via an IFA).

  4. #4
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    Annual leave can be paid for part days (if agreed to prior to the employee taking them or if they get sick etc during their annual leave) however, as mentioned there is a formal process that needs to be followed as well as company policies etc. Personal leave is a little different whereas most employees do put in a formal request if they know beforehand but sometimes that request will be after the fact (ie the employee gets sick etc). Two very different types of leave but still requiring formal procedures and documentation.

    When you say it was expected he would turn up 2 hours late (and thats ok, did he tell you that) If so did he expect to be paid?

    If you pay this guy you are not only setting a dangerous precedent but also making life difficult for payroll and the associated paperwork if you were to be audited. You need to let him know that if in future he intends to take this time off and turn up late then he will not be paid for it.

    As QLD IR Consultant said if you intend to pay him and put it down as sick leave you will still require documentation would you not? Personally I would not pay him instead make it clear what the expectations are and move forward based on that. I guarantee he won't be doing it again.

  5. #5

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    I'd be a bit more concerned now about using an IFA to remove Leave Loading......

  6. #6
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    Actually I was thinking the exact same thing when I read it - sitting here going WT???

  7. Default

    I don't know what sort of business you operate, but would it have been feasible to ask him to make the extra two hours up later in the week?

    That's the what we do if someone needs a couple of hours off during the normal work day, however I can appreciate that this is not possible in all businesses.

  8. #8
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    Default Persnal/Annual Leave - arrive work late and get 2 hrs////

    Agree with most already written but reiterate that employees are entitled to their leave. Often employee's problem is they have too much leave and don't take it!
    Things do happen at the last minute ie like a flat battery and he did call to let you know. If his choice is to have the time taken from his leave balance and he has that balance then as far as I am concerned, he should be paid the time as leave. Taking leave as hours/part of a day is more common than you think.
    You worry about precedent, but there will always be things that crop up, unavoidably for people - even being stuck in a major traffic jam. I'd have no qualms about paying him the leave but if I found that that person was making a habit, then I'd be taking him aside.
    Alternatively, Job Media mentions tagging it on to the end of the day. This is logical, most people if late will offer to make it up and this is something you could weave into your attendance policy next time it is reviewed.
    As long as you have sound and fair policies in place and treat everyone the same, I'd not worry about 'precedent'. But I do think that wanting to penalise him (which is kind of what you are doing not wanting to pay him) is being a bit mean unless he is someone you want to encourage out of your business.
    Alas, none of us work in a perfect world but he did call in advance and if he has the leave, offered to use that to be paid, there should be no problem with this.
    My final point - this type of employer reaction could result, with certain employees, in getting the union involved - I've seen it happen.

    Tiger
    Last edited by Tiger; 21-05-2013 at 11:16 AM. Reason: typo

  9. #9

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    Generally, the terms that the employer and the individual employee may agree to vary the application of are those concerning:
    arrangements when work is performed
    overtime rates
    penalty rates
    allowances
    leave loading.
    As long as the employee is better off, then the above can be factored out of an employees entitlements via an IFA.
    We get around this by offering a better hourly rate if the IFA is signed.

    In the end I think I will pay the 2 hrs as AL so as not to create ill-will (and as you say Tiger, penalising him) which may result in a protest Personal Leave day being taken anyway.
    The precedent still bothers me, but I will address it if it happens again, hopefully it won't.
    Thx for your feedback.

  10. #10
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    Your call tubefeed - this is usually the kind of employee that will take advantage if given the chance AND get the Union involved (if the Union is entitled to represent him at the workplace) regardless. That said you need to ensure you have all your processes followed and in place as I can guarantee that the next employee who asks for this to be paid and is denied you will have the Union involved. Makes things more interesting anyway!!

  11. #11
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    One more thing - I know what an Individual Flexibility Agreement is (IFA). My surprise was that you are using them in this instance as most employees who are paid on an hourly rate are normally casuals not what I would refer to as wages employees ie those that have set hours but may do overtime etc occasionally. IFA's are/were normally used for white collar employees or middle management.

  12. #12

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    fyi...We are dealing with the Construction industry here, hence the hourly rate. We use IFAs as the modern award for this industry has many inclusions that our employees did not have previously i.e. b4 Fair Work e.g. leave loading (in 2013 unbelievable), and all sorts of rules about overtime and allowances. An IFA actually provides us better protection from all sorts of claims by factoring out a lot of allowances in lieu of a higher rate of pay (which takes the allowances into consideration), but ultimately makes administration a whole lot easier
    Thx for your feedback, lots of valid and interesting thoughts I hope my moment of 'softness' is not taken advantage of in the future, lol.

  13. #13
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    That makes much more sense

    Perhaps in the future you might want to be a little more descriptive so we are able to provide more aligned feedback.

  14. #14
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    As the leave taken by the employee was not authorised .......... it would normally be treated as unpaid leave. If the employee applied for annual leave then his Manager could either reject it and not pay him for the two hours or accept it and pay the two hours annual leave. Essentially it is not a cost the company incurs as the annual leave liability would have been accrued anyway.

    Tiger - Yes ..........employees are entitled to their leave ..........if it is authorised. I agree that the employee should be paid annual leave as they have given a legitimate reason to their Manager (the night before taking the leave) and it is not a substantial period of leave.

    If a pattern of this type of leave behaviour develops (or is identified) then a formal review process can be instigated.

  15. #15
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    As always Tiger your responses are spot on!

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