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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Melbourne - Fitzroy
    Posts
    8

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    Is it not sad/concerning that we are still having these conversations in 2013 where a person seeking to get back into the workforce is clearly being discriminated, whether its by the prospective employer or by the agency?

    This is not just happening to women trying to re-enter the workforce but also older workers (and in some cases 'not so old' workers with significant experience) trying to win a position that an employer or agency determine they do not have the 'job fit' (what a cop out!!).

    Would organisations with competent HR departments allow this type of discrimination to occur? The ordinary ones would and do!

    I am not anti agency but strongly believe (and know of) many agencies who are unprofessional and treat applicants like fodder. These agencies need to be weeded out and left to wither. The good agencies who work closely with companies, who truly understand the brief and treat their applicants with respect are the ones that deserve to remain.

    "Determined"....my advice is to tailor your CV and alter it to suit what is being asked.....if it means to play them at their own game then deceive! You will be employed.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    65

    Default

    RFitzlion - no it's not legal if its not advertised as a contract to perm opportunity. I think you are talking about the minimum employment period of 6 months that one must complete before accessing unfair dismissal laws. This does nt include unlawful dismissal as that is something different.

    A contract to perm position must be advertised as such and not sprung upon you when you accept the role. They might say there is a probationary period ( which is still common regardless of the MEP) in the written contract of employment. I think what a lot of companies do is say contract to perm to test you out so to speak.

    Also you have to remember there is a difference between a true fixed term contract with has a start date and end date and a contract to perm arrangement and a sham contract. There are a lot of complexities that differentiates them.

    Ensure you get all the information before accepting any offer.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RFitzlion View Post
    Is it not sad/concerning that we are still having these conversations in 2013 where a person seeking to get back into the workforce is clearly being discriminated, whether its by the prospective employer or by the agency?

    This is not just happening to women trying to re-enter the workforce but also older workers (and in some cases 'not so old' workers with significant experience) trying to win a position that an employer or agency determine they do not have the 'job fit' (what a cop out!!).

    Would organisations with competent HR departments allow this type of discrimination to occur? The ordinary ones would and do!

    I am not anti agency but strongly believe (and know of) many agencies who are unprofessional and treat applicants like fodder. These agencies need to be weeded out and left to wither. The good agencies who work closely with companies, who truly understand the brief and treat their applicants with respect are the ones that deserve to remain.

    "Determined"....my advice is to tailor your CV and alter it to suit what is being asked.....if it means to play them at their own game then deceive! You will be employed.
    I also agree with your above statement.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Melbourne - Fitzroy
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleAnita View Post
    A contract to perm position must be advertised as such and not sprung upon you when you accept the role. They might say there is a probationary period ( which is still common regardless of the MEP) in the written contract of employment. I think what a lot of companies do is say contract to perm to test you out so to speak.
    I would hope good organisations with competent HR departments would not advertise these "contract to perm" positions, if the position is in fact an ongoing position that simply needs a well managed probation period.

    The term "contract to perm" is just terrible, they may as well say "try before you buy".

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    452

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RFitzlion View Post
    So this is legal Moz? Not a sham contract?
    Well if it isn't legal a lot of employers are breaking the law. However, as far as I am aware there is nothing illegal about "temp to perm" contracts. If you want to know for sure, ask a lawyer.

    "try before you buy"? of course it is, they are not hiding the fact.

    I agree that it is deceptive to advertise a job as perm then offer it as a contract with a view to permanency, but unfortunately when the candidate is unemployed, all of the power rests with the employer and many will take advantage of the situation.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    65

    Default

    You would be surprised at what some employers will do (intentionally) and try to get away with it. Unfortunately Discrimination is still very prevalent in 2013 as it was 20 odd years ago and I have witnessed this first hand.

    Contract positions are just that - start date and end date. Even a temp who is paid from an agency as a 'temporary employee' will continue to be paid from the agency yet still treated as if they are a permanent employee, which is why now casuals have the option of requesting permanent work after a period of time because a lot of companies were using this as an excuse to fill their workforce and have the options of terminating someone at a whim. There are also legitimate reasons for it - the company may be in a transition phase and not yet know whether they actually need the position but as long as it is advertised as such that's not illegal. It's when it starts to become clouded between the agency and the company or if the company is paying them from their own payroll and drags out usually longer than 6 months then I would question the situation.

    This is why there are now certain criteria to be met for a true contractor and not a sham contract. As for a temp to perm position these are legal ONLY if they are made clear at the start. For example it might be a maternity leave position but the majority are employers wanting to use that 6 month MEP to see if the person works out. There are some upsides to this as some people prefer to work like this as it gives them more flexibility but the fact is if a company has someone on a contract to perm position and that employee is performing really well they will eventually look to find something more stable and permanent. After all, who wants to keep working as a contractor (if you want a permanent job) for more than 6 months without accruing all your entitlements etc.

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