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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    10

    Default RecommendedTraining provider in HR/ Recognition of Cert IV

    Hi there,

    I have nearly finished a Cert IV in HR with Oten (Tafe NSW) and to be honest I am a bit disappointed about the whole course, e.g. the legislation in some units is not up to date, links in the material do not work, the referencing is missing. I think the material is really superficial and I feel that I have not learned that much how I should have. To be honest some units do not even seem to be very essential in HR (e.g. financial reports, GST).
    I am thinking about studying further, a Diploma or advanced Diploma in HR - Can anyone recommed a good training provider for this? I always thought Tafe is the go, but maybe there are better options? I am open for internal and external courses, location NT, WA or SA.

    I would also like to know from the point of an employer if a Cert IV in HR is recognised as basic education into HR jobs. I already have a degree in a social science, 3 years work experience in welfare and admin roles and I would like to improve my chances to find a job as HR officer.

    Thanks for your advise.
    Last edited by federboa; 09-08-2012 at 07:14 AM.

  2. #2

    Default

    Federboa, I can sympathise with you. I am almost finished a Diploma in HR Management to compliment over a decade of on the ground experience and to be honest I think I've just purchased an expensive piece of paper.

    The pro's and cons of degrees aside the employers I deal with a very much focused on practical experience regardless of what role it is. Whilst HR is technical type role in terms of knowing legislation/policies/processes etc, the ability to effectively apply them in a practical way in the workplace is a different story. If your prepared to start at the bottom and work your way up then you'll do well. If you want to start at the top then its going to be a struggle. Your other degree will hold you in good stead with an employer as will your experience.

    Good luck with your search.......

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    65

    Default HR Training

    Quote Originally Posted by federboa View Post
    Hi there,

    I have nearly finished a Cert IV in HR with Oten (Tafe NSW) and to be honest I am a bit disappointed about the whole course, e.g. the legislation in some units is not up to date, links in the material do not work, the referencing is missing. I think the material is really superficial and I feel that I have not learned that much how I should have. To be honest some units do not even seem to be very essential in HR (e.g. financial reports, GST).
    I am thinking about studying further, a Diploma or advanced Diploma in HR - Can anyone recommed a good training provider for this? I always thought Tafe is the go, but maybe there are better options? I am open for internal and external courses, location NT, WA or SA.

    I would also like to know from the point of an employer if a Cert IV in HR is recognised as basic education into HR jobs. I already have a degree in a social science, 3 years work experience in welfare and admin roles and I would like to improve my chances to find a job as HR officer.

    Thanks for your advise.
    Hi

    I totally agree with you. I have been a practicing HR professional for over 10 years and studied my Diploma years ago. I decided that I wanted to concentrate on ER/IR and the only courses available where either Bachelors or Post Grad courses. I have now enrolled in the Masters of HR (you can get credit for past study ) and find it is fantastic. I have enrolled via the work experience pathway. Perhaps this is an option for you if you have practiced for a while. Otherwise AHRI have a foundations in HR or Advanced Diploma in HR - its expensive but is very up to date with current HR trends and also has pathways to further Post Grad study at various Universities. It can also be completed online.

    From an employer point of view - most HR entry level jobs do require a under graduate degree or Diploma. Although you could be lucky enough to find an employer willing to sponsor you with your further study.

    Good luck.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    151

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by federboa View Post
    Hi there,

    To be honest some units do not even seem to be very essential in HR (e.g. financial reports).
    .
    I have to disagree with you here, I find most HR people can't be effective business partners until they can understand the needs of the business, some of which is contained in the financial reports. HR always says it wants a seat at the table, without this knowledge, you will never get one and will only limit your career.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    196

    Default

    I have to admit to some disappointment at these comments. My first qualification (albeit a long time ago!) was from TAFE and it gave me the best grounding. Later after a few other things in between, I got a Masters in Management from MGSM but the middle learning was really from the on the job learning/experiences. Further, more than a decade ago I was a casual teacher of HR subjects in a number of Diplomas/Certificates at the Northern Institute of TAFE and I know that my superiors there were very big on an up to date curriculum. At some stage I was also invited to be part of a forum reviewing the content of HR disciplines for TAFE in general.

    So my first suggestion (to all of you with negative feedback on your TAFEor other educational experience) is to contact your local TAFE as well as TAFE headquarters and make a complaint. Believe me they will listen. TAFE is currently reviewing its whole operations and I was part of a market research session a month ago wherein they were seeking input from HR professionals as a step to being an organization which actually delivers what the public want.

    So if you think you got the short end of the straw - complain about it but don't just whinge, actually put a constructive piece together detailing why it wasn't what you thought it would be and offer suggestions, if you can, on what improvements you think they can make.

    Next, I would offer this - it doesn't matter where or what you study, to a large extent, your learning (and thus ability to apply it effectively in the workplace and develop your career) is what you learn on the job and thru having good HR mentors. After a couple of years, you are likely to forget the details of the courses but you remember your experiences.

    Another point which should be made is that, in my experiences, there are many people in HR who should not be in HR because they actually don't understand what it is. I belong to one network where the questions asked are so basic yet they come from 'HR Managers' - I get a sense often they are just too lazy to look for the answers themselves so often ask myself what has happened to mentoring? The old days of personnel (transactional) management are long gone but some still struggle with that.

    Moreover, legislation is changing so rapdily anyhow, it should be enough that you know there are rules governing various things and know where to find the latest on these.

    If you are still fixated on the study side of things (and we all know of perpetual students who study one thing after another for years and don't, necessarily, end up practising in the field!), then I would consider a degree in HR Management for starters (can be done remotely (online) or face to face (Charles Sturt might be worth looking at), and then if you still want more business acumen there is the Graduate Diplome from either Macquarie of Uof NSW or MBA programs to consider. As the ultimate, there is even a PhD available now!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cottoneyes View Post
    I have to disagree with you here, I find most HR people can't be effective business partners until they can understand the needs of the business, some of which is contained in the financial reports. HR always says it wants a seat at the table, without this knowledge, you will never get one and will only limit your career.
    I have to agree- the problem with some (not all) HR professionals is that they think they do not have to understand Financial reports or how to read them let alone report on them at Snr Management level or even board level. I have completed some contract work in between roles and the amount of time I have heard that the current HR Manager/Director "doesn't do reports, that's payroll's job" is amazing! This stops them from becoming true business partners (cliche' I know, but true). HR need to understand how the whole business works and how it makes it money to truly be effective. Look at this way - how could you workforce plan if you don't know what your projected financial outcome will be in 12-18 months time? Also, a lot of HR Managers/Directors are usually responsible for a HR budget. If you never have to produce a financial report at the very least you need to know how to read and interpret one.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Thanks for your valueable comments.
    As person not working in HR, I find it interesting that I do need knowledge in financial reports - I did not know that, so thanks for your comments.
    I chose Tafe as I thought it was the training provider to go. I can imagine that external and internal courses might differ a lot.. I guess, if I would have attended a training course full time I would have received much more current info then in my online course.. When I started my first unit 'industrial relations' I complained straight away and received feedback that the unit will be updated and the teacher sent me a HR book. I just checked and 8 months later this unit is still the same - written in 2007 (??!!).
    I might write a more formal complaint as well.
    Thanks for all your ideas for further HR courses - I will go through it and check if I can find something for me.

    federboa

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