PDA

View Full Version : LinkedIn contacts



FL777
28-04-2013, 12:16 PM
Just to set the scene I've worked for a firm since feb 12 and I was asked to move locations which I did and it hasn't worked out. I asked could they move me back and they said no so I went and got the same job for a competitor based in The original location

I handed in my notice on wed as I've accepted another opportunity back In Original location running the same desk into the same market. Since then they've changed their tune with me and are throwing all kinds of threats at me. They're obviously threatning first of all to uphold my restrictions of trade which is fine, but also telling me I must upload all of my 1800 LinkedIn contacts on to their system over the next few weeks. I've done my homework on this and they've no right to ask me to do this as it is a private social network. I spoke to the guys at LinkedIn and they've told me to say no and stand my ground unless it is in my contract (it isn't)

I'm at the stage now where I have 3.5 weeks holidays accrued and I'm going to suggest can I take them on Monday but am sure they'll say no and tell me I'm staying to upload the contacts, which I'd like to contest based on the homework I've done on that. Another point of info is the fact that I cannot put people's details on their system without their permission.

I'm wondering what it is you think I should do as I feel they have me backed into a corner here and have been told by numerous people that they can't touch me once I say I'm going to stick to my restriction of trade and they can do whatever they want I.e calling their bluff.

Any suggestions you may have would be much appreciated, I'm in 2 minds, should I just sit tight and see out my notice or call their bluff and refuse to put my LinkedIn contacts on their system and hope that then they will walk me or allow me to just take the holidays.

Moz
28-04-2013, 01:28 PM
Short answer: It depends :)

To some extent it may depend on the wording of your employment contract, in particularly any clauses governing ownership of information and intellectual property.

It's likely that they have the right to require you to give them the contact details of everyone whom you have any dealings with in connection with your work. But any smart organisation would have had you using a CRM (customer relationship management system/database), assuming you are dealing with existing and potential customers.

As for LinkedIn, I wouldn't take it for granted that they can't force you to hand over the contacts. I suggest you read this ...

Court orders ex-employee to hand over LinkedIn contacts - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/2791724/Court-orders-ex-employee-to-hand-over-LinkedIn-contacts.html)

FL777
28-04-2013, 02:27 PM
I've had a solicitor look at the intellectual property end of my contract and he has stated that because it doesn't specify 'LinkedIn" in the contract that it would not be worth the risk for them financially to take me to court over 1800 names who they want on their system. Also I've been told that it is against the law for them to put people on their CRM without their permission so I can refuse on the grounds of what they are asking me to do is illegal.

I'm not too worried about the LinkedIn contacts either if they really want to take me to court over them I can just hand them over. What I want to get out of this whole thing is for them to just let me leave ASAP as opposed to sitting there for the next 3 weeks as I am disputing the LinkedIn thing as it will buy me time.

Do you think I should appease them or fight it? They cannot really hit me for too much I feel?

Moz
28-04-2013, 04:31 PM
Do you think I should appease them or fight it?

I should point out that I am not a lawyer, so I can only give a personal view.

However, it's difficult to form a personal opinion without more information (I'm not necessarily suggesting you provide more information in a public forum).

For example I don't know what you do, what industry we're talking about, or what's at stake for the company - the value of the contact information. Also, they might be concerned about setting a precedent which ever way they go.

Other questions that come to mind;

How many LinkedIn contacts did you have before you joined the company?
Also, how much of the company's time did you spend developing your LinkedIn network?
Did the company pay for you to have premium membership of LinkedIn?
Did you gain the contacts by virtue of your employment by the company?

Bear in mind that certain rights of an employer are deemed to exist simply by virtue of the employer-employee relationship and do not necessarily have to be spelled out in a contract. I believe a duty of fidelity is one. Not saying this applies to this situation.

Another thing to bear in mind is that "social media" and business networking tools such as LinkedIn are relatively new and our laws were not developed with these scenarios in mind. So new precedents are being created and the view of one lawyer, or even a team of barristers, may not prevail if the matter is heard by a court and the other side puts forward more compelling arguments.

If I were you I wouldn't be surrendering LinkedIn contacts lightly, but if I thought it was a chance of the company taking legal action I would make sure I had some expert advice from a lawyer (or two) who specialises in this area.

It's certainly a very interesting issue and it would be great if you could let us know the outcome.

Tiger
28-04-2013, 04:47 PM
Like every situation there is always a lot to the story but based on what you have revealed and the potential questions around your Linked-In contacts, quite simply you have resigned, have given the required notice, should expect to work out your notice or if not required by the employer then have them pay out your notice, and, obviously, accede to any employment contract restrictions and that should be it.

Clearly, your employer doesn't want to lose you but it looks like it is past the point where they can change your mind so they are turning nasty and are bullying you.

Whilst no expert on social media, I was always of the opinion that it was a personal thing if individuals elect to be part of a network although I understand some employers do now check out their candidates on that site. Perhaps I just don't understand the implications of your Linked-In contacts. But reading the link referred to by Moz, it seems in that case the employee was encouraged by his employer to develop social media contacts for work. Did your employer do that, either in writing, contractually, or verbally which might have been documented in say an email, during your employment? If not, I'd call their bluff.

Without knowing what your job is and all the detail, it might be you consider having an employment lawyer take a look at your contract and any other written documentation related to your employment. Of course, you will pay for that advice but you might consider it worth it if it gives you peace of mind. If you are sure that nothing like that UK case has occurred with your own employment in relation to Linked-in contacts, if it was me, I'd probably stick to my guns and let them spend the money to go after your contacts -- but as you say, those contacts would have to give their permission.

If you feel the remaining time of your notice period is untenable, you could of course just quit now but you'd forfeit any notice payment. But you state you have three weeks' annual leave accrued which they will be required to pay out to you. If they want to play hardball, they may try to delay that payment as a potential 'hold' over you although withholding an employee's pay is illegal. Another reason to talk to an employment lawyer.

Frankly, once an employee decides to leave and there's no saving the situation, the employer can't do much about it (although I'd not be asking them for a reference) unless they can prove legally they have a case of breach of contract etc.

I think that the laws around social media are still a little in their infancy here but next time someone offers you a transfer, I suggest you take it on a trial basis to start /or have written into your amended employment contract that in the event the job doesn't work out, you want the right to return to your former location/job. I imagine you are probably going to be out of pocket your return to original location costs as well. So you should weigh it all up, not overlooking any longer term potential negatives on your record which might arise from this situation.

Good luck
Tiger

Tiger
28-04-2013, 04:59 PM
I omitted to add to my earlier comments that if you have a company provided mobile phone, laptop etc., to carry out your work, then you will hand them over when you finish work and anything on those devices can be retrieved forensically so possibility exists your employer can gather what they need that way????

Tiger

FL777
28-04-2013, 05:02 PM
I am working in recruitment and they want access to aroundv1500 contacts as they all work within the market I recruit for.

The reason I added each of them was with this current job in mind and now am moving to a competitor. The reason I don't want to upload them is because I will be restricted from dealing with them as per my restriction of trade clause. So if I put them on their CRM I will be liable if I speak to them in my next job. Is It not my current employers own problem that they let me use a private social network to succeed? I mean if I had never used LinkedIn and added all of these people through Facebook surely they wouldn't try to take my contacts from that?

Yes this was part of my job but not set out in my contract. It was simply suggested by them. They've never payed for my account and the principal email is my private one.

I suppose though if they took me to court and won I'd hand overt contacts. I simply do not want to sit here doing data entry and shooting myself in the foot for my next role.

I'd really like to hear what other people would do in this situation.

Moz
01-05-2013, 05:06 PM
FL777, I don't know where you are up to with this but I had an idea for a compromise.

Why don't you say that you are not prepared to enter your LinkedIn contacts to your employers CRM system because of privacy concerns, but you will accept a connection invite from your manager so he or she can see your contacts and this connection will remain in place until your last day of employment with your current company.

This allows your company to see who your contacts are and make a note of them and they can add them to their CRM if they wish.


Yes this was part of my job but not set out in my contract. It was simply suggested by them. They've never payed for my account and the principal email is my private one.

Frankly, if I were them, my view would be that you created the majority of those contacts as part of your job and probably in company time, so we would be entitled to have access to all of the information and that you must delete that information when you leave.

Most companies confidentiality clauses make mention of things like "customer lists" and it could be argued that your LinkedIn contacts are exactly that.