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View Full Version : If this goes to HR... what could happen?



maxsven
27-07-2012, 07:57 PM
Hi All,

Here is the deal,
I work for a large IT company in Australia... we have over 4000 employees.
There is a guy in my team that has a very bad attitude towards all engineers but a "nice" attitude towards managers... This guy keeps ignoring requests from me coming to him unless it is super urgent and others are CCed.. He has also shown unprofessional behavior on many occasions that I did not want to escalate as I just wanted life to go on... except for 2 days where I asked him for info (that many people didnt get) in an email going only to him and as usual he ignored it for a whole day and on the next day I had to request this info through the team by emailing the whole team....

he immediately replied back saying that this was sent before and he has no time to keep sending the same info over and over again... and when I said that it was a simple request for info, he came back with the following in a "reply all" copying the whole team and our manager:

"in theory, if people are having issues with accessing the network, it could be argued that they should be saying something (either to the team that manages the gateway, or to the help Desk). Instead, the current way of doing things seems to be that we all bitch about things amongst ourselves instead of actually referring issues to the groups responsible for fixing them.

Not pointing any fingers here, just making some suggestions."

I have immediately escalated this to his manager who was not in the office at the time but promised to get things sorted after he speaks to both of us on monday...

I need to know if I can take this up with HR... I felt very offended and even an apology will not be enough for me...

Qld IR Consultant
31-07-2012, 08:37 AM
Well in terms of HR involvement it would be dependant on whether or not you or the manager decide to escalate it. It sounds to me to be a personality clash (which is common in al workplaces) so in my view it would be up to the manager to mediate and to manage your interactions with the other employee.

My next point would be what exactly are you seeking? Do you want him terminated? Disciplined?....I would think that any experienced HR consultant will know (based on what you have posted) that neither is a viable option.

I think you need to get an even ground mediated by a 3rd party and move on. Your never going to get a perfect workplace so just concentrate on doing your own job. If he tasks form part of your overall job then maybe you need to let a couple of things fall over to highlight his work ethic....

maxsven
31-07-2012, 10:43 AM
I'm not sure how you are suggesting that to have him "disciplined" is not a valid option..

you might not be across the whole picture tho... what I have posted is the only thing that the guy has put in writing.. there have been several other occasions where i have experienced verbal offense from that person...

my question for you... if this can have no disciplinary action... then what happens if 4000 employees start emailng each other and probably external customers that way?

Qld IR Consultant
31-07-2012, 11:33 AM
Well your 4000 employees scenario is a different one all together. In terms of the current one your dealing with then if you lodged a formal complaint HR are obligated to see that through. What I'm saying is that don't think he would be disciplined for it based on just your complaint alone, and this 1 instance.

If he has treated others in an adverse manner than you all need to lodge complaints and see it through to the end. Alternatively if it is just you he is targeting then you need to document the instances and then proceed with a formal process.

Based on what you have posted I can't guarantee your HR will discipline him for apparently having a go at you, they may however caution him against the process he used and instruct him not to do it again.....

But I'm not your HR department so unfortunately no one here can tell you without question what will or won't happen.

Like I said if he is an integral part of a bigger process than perhaps his part needs to fall over to make an example of his inability to work well with others......

Moz
31-07-2012, 01:48 PM
It sounds to me like it is an issue which needs to addressed initially by your line manager, not HR. Just like Qld IR Consultant said in post #2.

HR might become involved later at the request of a manager.

Also, what were you offended by? was it what he said, or the fact that he sent it to the whole team?

maxsven
31-07-2012, 02:20 PM
It sounds to me like it is an issue which needs to addressed initially by your line manager, not HR. Just like Qld IR Consultant said in post #2.

HR might become involved later at the request of a manager.

Also, what were you offended by? was it what he said, or the fact that he sent it to the whole team?

ofcourse what he said... it does not make any sense that one can only make a complaint when the the same offense is only made in public..
again, 15 years in this industry, i have never experienced this sort of comms whether that was put in an email to an individual, a group of people... i might have been a bit too lucky by the looks of it :)
The point is HR should be responsible for preventing this type of attitude, as if this one was no considered unusual, it is a license to all 4000 employees to use the same type of comms..

final point, i was seeking information that the whole business relies on for supporting what can be worth more $ Millions worth of client infrastructure...

Moz
31-07-2012, 11:24 PM
The point is HR should be responsible for preventing this type of attitude.

As John McEnroe once famously said, "you cannot be serious!"

Just how could HR have prevented what happened? How on earth can anyone prevent an attitude?

Perhaps HR could moderate all internal company email - at least this might prevent you from being exposed to the attitude :)

Do you think the Police should be responsible for preventing the general public from behaving badly. Or should it be the Government?

Personally I can't understand why you are so offended anyway. Annoyed or irritated maybe, but offended?

But maybe he's right. Maybe there is too much bitching about problems instead of reporting them to the people responsible. Sounds like a reasonable point to me. But even if he is wrong, he's still entitled to his opinion.

For what it's worth, I also think it's quite reasonable that he replied to "all", because you sent it to "all" to begin with.

A quote I heard in a recent dispute between two soccer players in the UK premier league comes to mind - "it's just handbags" :) lol

Tiger
01-08-2012, 09:11 AM
With respect, it is this kind of kindergarten activity in the workplace which drives me nuts. Why can't adults behave as adults. You need to get back to basics.
What is the established (in policy) process for what you do and what that other guy/dept does? This should include communication.
If departments need to interact and there isn't established process, well it won't be efficient for starters and will end up driving people insane. So a process map might be a good starting point.
Surely there are meetings in which information is shared, clarified so that the respective employees/departments can get on with their jobs. If not, they would be regularly held.
As others state, there will always be personality clashes and egos in any team, the trick is to stick to the guidelines for the job and if that is hot happening, you need to take that up with your manager.

If IT global address lists are not working or are not set up to include the appropriate recipients, then talk to IT. As for emails, cc'g the world often has an undesired effect if the copied recipients do not need to have that information. I had a colleage (senior mgr) several years ago who deleted every email he was cc'd! Bit extreme, but he has a point.

We all work with people we can't stand or don't get along with for whatever reason, the trick is to put personal feelings aside and stick to the facts of the job and what is required to perform that job. If there is competition for recognition somewhere (egos at play), then get the managers involved to set process for how that will work so that there are no midunderstandings.

I have worked with a lot of engineers and you are talented at what you do but do tend to think differently to the rest of us mortals. So for others who think differently - other job types, eg sales etc., their tolerance level is sometimes lacking So instead of getting all upset, put your head down and do your job and remain professional. You might work with a jerk but you don't have to lower your own standards because of him.

And No, this is not something for HR - bring this to me and I'd put it right back to the business. Sorry to be blunt but hope it helps.

maxsven
01-08-2012, 09:21 AM
As John McEnroe once famously said, "you cannot be serious!"

Just how could HR have prevented what happened? How on earth can anyone prevent an attitude?

Perhaps HR could moderate all internal company email - at least this might prevent you from being exposed to the attitude :)

Do you think the Police should be responsible for preventing the general public from behaving badly. Or should it be the Government?

Personally I can't understand why you are so offended anyway. Annoyed or irritated maybe, but offended?

But maybe he's right. Maybe there is too much bitching about problems instead of reporting them to the people responsible. Sounds like a reasonable point to me. But even if he is wrong, he's still entitled to his opinion.

For what it's worth, I also think it's quite reasonable that he replied to "all", because you sent it to "all" to begin with.

A quote I heard in a recent dispute between two soccer players in the UK premier league comes to mind - "it's just handbags" :) lol

dude, for a sec i thought you were the guy's daddy!!
where have you been working all your life? at a convenience store? or a bottle shop? i'm talking abt one of Australia's largest companies here...
the issue has been escalated to HR on Friday and yesterday around 4:30PM, i have been informed that HR will be taking a disciplinary action following discussing the matter with him on Monday... I have also been told that the guy is willing to apologize "in public"...
I'm glad our HR, unlike your "bosses", have no tolerance for "bitching"...

Moz
01-08-2012, 01:59 PM
where have you been working all your life? at a convenience store? or a bottle shop?

ho ho

Maybe you should try working in one. They don't usually have HR departments so you might be forced you to develop a little psychological resilience. This will help you as you grow up, because sooner or later you will probably have to deal with more difficult situations than the one you described.



i'm talking abt one of Australia's largest companies here...

With 4000 people? That's not one of Australia's largest companies. Try 40,000.

admin
01-08-2012, 02:01 PM
It looks like this discussion could get a bit heated, so to avoid having to discipline anyone I'm closing it now :)