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HeidiC
13-08-2009, 01:20 PM
In looking at the Awards, legislation and the upcoming NES - I have found no definition for "household members" refered too in all legislation. Can Personal/Carer's Leave also include the care of pets? I have an employee who recently had to take a week off work to attend to a very sick pet and I am debating whether it is covered by Personal/Carer's Leave.

Any assistance would be much appreciated.

Mark D
13-08-2009, 02:21 PM
That's ridiculous. Is the employee a Gen Y "entitlement mentality" type?

kevinh
13-08-2009, 04:38 PM
Yet another interesting topic!

Some people are very attached to their pets, particularly people who live alone, and would be quite distressed about leaving a very sick animal at home on it's own for 9-10 hours. You may find that this person is going to take that time off no matter what you call it (annual leave, sick leave, personal leave, unpaid leave).

If the law doesn't cater for this situation then I think it should be looked at on a case by case basis. If it's an employee who manages to take their full quota Personal/Carer's leave every year then you might be a bit less sympathetic than if it was someone who rarely takes Personal/Carer leave and has one long term pet that is critically ill.

There are also some moral issues to consider, such as, will the animal suffer if this person doesn't get the time off?

michaelakassar
13-08-2009, 04:45 PM
Heidi,

I have to agree with Kevin on this one.

I have a 15 year old miniature poodle whom I'm very close to. Luckily he doesn't need full time care, but he does have his ailments.


Cheers

Michaela

Mark D
14-08-2009, 09:58 AM
From the Act ....


immediate family of a national system employee means:
(a) a spouse, de facto partner, child, parent, grandparent,
grandchild or sibling of the employee; or
(b) a child, parent, grandparent, grandchild or sibling of a spouse
or de facto partner of the employee.

An employee may take paid personal/carer’s leave if the leave is
taken:

to provide care or support to a member of the employee’s
immediate family, or a member of the employee’s household,
who requires care or support because of:
(i) a personal illness, or personal injury, affecting the
member; or
(ii) an unexpected emergency affecting the member.

"a member of the employee's household" suggests to me a person, not a pet. I'd be amazed if the legislation was intended to extend to pets.

There are in fact some existing Enterprise Agreements that allow staff to use their 10 days paid personal leave to look after a sick pet (Google confirms this to be the case), but it's definitely not a legislated right. Of course if somebody wants to take annual leave or unpaid leave to do so, there's no problem with them doing that.

HeidiC
17-08-2009, 05:15 PM
Thank you for both sides of the arguement, everyone. I think I will just have to present both sides of the arguement to the General Manager for them to make the decision. Hopefully it won't create a precident for abuse of the system for all the other employees - can you get a medical certificate from a vet??

Mark D
17-08-2009, 05:30 PM
Thank you for both sides of the arguement, everyone. I think I will just have to present both sides of the arguement to the General Manager for them to make the decision.

What if the GM asks you for your recommendation? You're the HR specialist, they pay you for your advice - you should take the lead on this and present them with the legislative facts and the extenuating circumstances surrounding this sick pet and the staff member concerned, with a recommendation - which should cover the implications to the business if granting paid personal leave on this occasions creates a precedent for other staff with pets. ie. what's the potential cost if all your staff suddenly have access to this special deal? 2 days additional paid leave per person per year adds 0.77% to your labour costs. What impact will this potential cost increase have on the margins of the business and the bottom line?

kevinh
18-08-2009, 09:27 AM
Does it necessarily create a precedent?

There are plenty of instances where employers treat an individual differently on compassionate grounds.

This is a discretionary decision - why does it have to apply to everyone?

Also, it's being taken as Personal/Carer leave - so how could it result in 2 days extra paid leave for every employee?

It could easily be argued that it has no impact on the bottom line whatsoever, and could have a positive impact on morale. Assuming of course that the individual concerned actually tells everyone that she took personal/carer leave to look after her sick pet.

Mark D
18-08-2009, 09:48 AM
Does it necessarily create a precedent?

There are plenty of instances where employers treat an individual differently on compassionate grounds.

This is a discretionary decision - why does it have to apply to everyone?

Also, it's being taken as Personal/Carer leave - so how could it result in 2 days extra paid leave for every employee?

It could easily be argued that it has no impact on the bottom line whatsoever, and could have a positive impact on morale. Assuming of course that the individual concerned actually tells everyone that she took personal/carer leave to look after her sick pet.


True, without knowing the workplace culture it's impossible to know how much of a precedent this will create, however I bet there are many workplaces where it would. All it takes is for the lucky recipient of the paid time off to tell some workmates, and the seed is sown.

Your comment about it being taken as Personal/Carers leave assumes that everybody already takes their full 10 days per annum entitlement. I'm sure that's not the case - so for this particular staff member they are being given two days paid leave off work that they wouldn't normally take - that IS a cost to the business unless that person has a job where they sit around all day with nothing to do.

As I said, depending on the culture of this particular workplace, there will be some employees who will milk this for everything they can get. Some people will see this as another easy way to take a sickie and get paid for it. Gen Y staff will certainly see this as an entitlement.

If the staff member in question is a stellar performer who never takes any sick leave, then I can see why it might be beneficial to let them have this time off. Horses for courses I suppose, but I wouldn't be giving somebody time off because their cat has a furball without first thinking carefully about the potential wider consequences for the business. We can be nice tree hugging HR types, but we also are business partners.

kevinh
18-08-2009, 10:35 AM
Mark, I think you over generalise about Gen Y, but that's another discussion :)

However, I understand your concerns about 'pet leave' becoming a problem. It really needs to be clarified in the FWA.

There's an easy way to stop this example being exploited by all sundry as a precedent. Ask the individual to get a short letter from the vet explaining what's wrong with the animal and why, in the opinion of the vet, the animal requires constant attention.

In my experience vets tend to be no-nonsense, pragmatic people who would be unlikely to provide such a letter in a case that was not genuine.

As for the cost. I wasn't disputing the fact that there is a cost in the case of the individual, but because this particular leave is deemed to be discretionary and not an automatic entitlement for all staff, then the cost doesn't have to be applied to every staff member.

Notwithstanding the arguments so far, the more I think about this the more I think it should be taken as annual leave.

Roelie
18-12-2009, 03:12 PM
Apart from Gen Y I tend to agree with Mark. HeidiC, do your research, you know the history of the company and the culture and make a decision including all factors, precedent, business, morale, cost etc etc. and advise your GM. Remember he does not need to take your advice, but to build credibility I think it is important for you to take a stance and be able to argue your point!

As if we not already have problems with "Sickies"........whats next.......the rats in my roof ate ratpoison so I have to stay home and ensure there are enough water for them to drink!!!!